Chill Winston!
Jun. 9th, 2009 02:12 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
geebsHave been reading through MoEP:Infernals. Here's some thoughts on what I've read, so far:
First a primer:
Creation used to be ruled by the primordials (analogous to the titans in Greek myth or giants of Norse). The gods got jealous and wanted to take over. But, since they were powerless to do anything against the primordials, they instead empowered ("exalted") countless mortals to do their fighting for them.
In the ensuing conflict, the primordials who were slain became the neverborn, and in their death the underworld was created. The primoridals who survived swore oaths to the victors and were twisted into the Yozi and locked away in hell.
The solars enjoyed great power for a while, but then the sidereals foresaw that they would bring about the end of creation. So, they figured their best plan was to take out the Solars. So, they manipulated the Dragonbloods into rebelling. And Terrestrial exalts did, and won, and the exaltations that gave the solars their power were locked away under the sea in the jade prison.
Now ever since the primordials were defeated, they had plans to get their revenge. The Neverborn, who are continuously falling towards "Oblivion", a howling whirlwind at the center of the Underworld said to be the end of everything, but never quite reaching it, want to destroy creation. The belief is that the Underworld was created because those dead primordials can't pass on, they still have something in them anchoring them to creation. But if creation is destroyed, that anchor is gone, and they can finally escape their state of undeath.
The Yozi on the other hand, want to reclaim creation for themselves. But losing the battle with the gods, they swore oaths in their defeat the prevented them from doing anything against their jailers and escaping from their prison. They first tried corrupting mortals and even exalted. Those exalts who joined the Yozi cause became "Akuma", the first kind of Infernal. But, despite the power of these Akuma, it wasn't enough to break them out of hell. So, the Yozis' new goal became to corrupt creation to the point where it and hell became indistinguishable and the gates separating the two would unlock, finally setting the Yozi free.
Anyways, when the solar exaltations were put in the jade prison and the Dragon-bloods took over, the Neverborn found the "souls" of those dead solars killed by the dragon-bloods (while the exaltation is their power, the soul is their personality) in the Underworld and managed to convince several of them into following them, and they were turned into the Deathlords. While they used to be Solars, since they lacked those exaltations, they were really just extremely powerful spirits, rather than exalts. They tried all sorts of plans to try and destroy creation butn ultimately failed.
It was then the the Yozi known as the Ebon Dragon learned about the Jade Prison, and came up with the idea to twist those exaltations within to become weapons to use against the gods and dragonbloods. Even allying with 4 fellow Yozi and getting the support of a 5th, that had nowhere near the power to get those exaltations out of the jade prison. So, he turned to the Neverborn. If they got their Deathlords to raise the Jade Prison and get those exaltations within, and gave the Yozi just 50 of those exaltations, the Yozi would teach the Neverborn how to twist the exaltations to suit their own needs.
The Deathlords, following their masters wishes, tried to get the Jade Prison. But in their attempt, they accidentally broke it open, and half of them leaked out, and those exaltations sought out heroic mortal souls to bond with and become the Solars of today. The deathlords managed to bring only half the number they were expecting to the Neverborn, and 50 of those were given to the Yozi. The Yozi taught the Neverborn how to change those exaltations. So, those exaltations that were twisted by the Neverborn became the Abyssals, and those twisted by the Yozi became the second type of Infernal exalt, the "Green Sun Princes".
So, there were about 300 solar exaltations total. Half escaped the prison, putting the number of solars around 150. The other 150 were split amongst the Neverborn and Yozi. The Yozi were promised 50 exaltations, with the rest going to the Neverborn. So breaking that down, that means there are only 150 solars now, with the others being corrupted into the 100 abyssals, and the last 50 being the green sun prince infernals.
Solar exaltations were created to seek out worthy mortals to bond to and empower. The Deathlords and Yozi, however, have a limited number of these exaltations and cannot be so capricious with who these get bonded to.
Interestingly enough, mortals who the solar exaltation decides to bond to have no choice in the matter. They just exalt. For Death Knights and Green Sun Princes though, the mortal must make a conscious choice to accept the exaltation. For abyssals, the Deathlords approach a suitable candidate at the point of their death (if a particular mortal strikes their fancy, they might engineer that death). To the dying mortal they offer survival and power beyond their wildest imagination. Infernals on the other hand, when the Yozi think a candidate is suitable, they see how they react to some great hardship (again, possibly engineered by the Yozi themselves). Now, the Yozi aren't gonna help them through this hardship, so its not like they'll be all, "We'll give you this infernal power to help you succeed". Rather, they look for the mortal to fail (due to some flaw in their character), but survive. It is then that they work their machinations on the candidate, saying how it was unfair what happened to them, and it is then that they offer them that great power, to change their stars.
******
I guess one thing that possibly makes the solars boring compared to their abyssal and infernal brethren (at least to me) is that the description of the exaltation for a solar is so mundane for such an incredible event. Yeah, there's a big flash of blinding light. Big whoop! The abyssals have a similar sort of exaltation, but the event itself seem to have negative consequences to the surrounding area where the exaltation takes place and any poor living creature that nearby. I mean, their exaltations are often minature versions of biblical plague-like events. Infernals are even more detailed in their transformation.
As mentioned earlier, exaltations seek out heroes to bond to once free. So when a solar is slain, they just fly free and eventually find a new mortal to bond to. Obviously, the Deathlords and Yozi don't want that to happen whenever their Death Knights or GSPs are killed. For the DKs, their abyssal exaltation goes back to its monstrance of celestial portion- large, coffin like objects in possession of certain Deathlords or Neverborn that house the exaltation when it is not used.
Infernal exaltations however, are tethered to the youngest daughter of the Scarlet Empress. This poor little girl was sacrificed to the Yozi, and has become an insane wretched creature into which the infernal exaltaions are tethered to. When a GSP needs to be made, the Yozi has one of their demons commune with this poor girl, Lillun, and the exaltation is transferred to it. Then the Yozi gets one of their cultists to summon it to creation and that demon seeks out a suitable mortal.
Once the mortal accepts, the demon envelops the candidate in a horrid cocoon (the appearance of which depends on the kind of demon) and they are slowly transformed into the new Infernal. The GSP eventually hatches, and the soul of the demon involved in the chrysalis sticks around, possibly offering advice and wot-not if strong enough (i.e., if the character has dots in the unwoven coadjutor merit).
*****
Now, as to which I prefer, the death knights and green sun princes are more interesting than the solars. But I do respect what the solars have to deal with. They exalt, they are basically alone in the world until they find some sort of friendly to help them out. If they're lucky, they'll find other solars with whom to form a circle with for mutual defense and to accomplish high reaching goals. And while a single solar is extremely powerful, a god amongst ants, they have so many enemies to deal with. The world is tough enough as it is, with the Fair Folk, the Deathlords, and Yozi around causing trouble for Creation. The Fae want to subsume Creation back into the boundless chaos. The Deathlords seek to pull everything into Oblivion at the behest of their Neverborn masters. The Yozi seek to escape Hell by transforming Creation into a facsimile of it. So the solars have to worry about these threats trying to destroy the world around them, if not being targeted themselves as the solars are some of the greatest threats to their plans.
But then they have a faction of Sidereals constantly trying to undermine them and manufacture their destruction, as well as an entire giant and powerful empire seeking to destroy them. While armies of mortals are nothing to them, the dragon blooded zealots leading the charge against them are a significant threat. They're taught from birth to see the Solars as abominations, making no differentiation between the Solars and their evil brethren, the DKs and GSPs. So these DBS fight with unwavering conviction, firmly believing they are doing right by destroying a great evil.
Anyways, I do like the vampireness of the Abyssals. With the black exaltation, they are frozen at the moment of their death, never aging, only subject to death by violent means. Plus, the exaltation transforms them into a darkly beautiful thing, or a truly hideous and horrid monster, never mundane. Being undead creatures, they cannot respire essence in creation, but when there can regain it through consuming it from the living.
Infernals on the other hand, when going through the metamorphosis are transformed back to the prime of their youth. It can be safely assumed like their solar counterparts, they age extremely slowly. So while the Abyssals will never die of old age, the GSPs age so slowly that its a moot point, and prolly won't be an issue for thousands of years.
They're all of equal power, though I haven't read up on infernal charms yet. While the GSPs are divided into similar caste groupings as the DKs/Solars, their charm sets aren't simply renamed solar or abyssal charms though and work on a different mechanic. They are not based off of certain skills, but rather their Yozi patron. They have a variety of different effects tied together through some unifying theme (dominance, trickery, etc). Also, the GSP excellencies are more expensive (in both experience and essence cost), but can be used to modify ANY action that falls within those themes. So the cost evens out.
However, in terms of power beyond their individual stats, again, the Solars are on their own. They have to work at becoming the hero they are destined to become, scavenge and deal to survive and build a power base. Death Knights have a Deathlord and its vast armies (well, depending on the Deathlord) backing them up from the start. Their masters are fully willing to laud them with powerful artifacts and mortal and undead helpers to help them achieve their goals. So to the GSPs have the Yozi backing them up. But unlike the Deathlords, the Yozi are a little more willing to work together. So while the DKs are well respected generals and accorded some measure of power in the Underworld, given that the GSPs place in hell's heirarchy is more codified through agreement of their Yozi masters, they truly are princes. In addition to the same kinds of benefits the DKs get, they have their own estates in Malfeas and seem to be afforded more power than the Deathlords give their DKs (mechanics wise, they do get a free dot in backing, cult, and influence, in addition to all the usual stuff solars/abyssals/infernals get).
Goal wise, the Death Knights are tasked with destroying everything. The Green Sun Princes on the other hand, are tasked with taking over Creation and twisting it into a form suitable to their hellish masters. Though the form Malfeas wishes to see is all of Creation razed, while Adjoran wishes for all its inhabitants to be forever dead (truly dead, not the whole undeath of the Underworld)and silenced, so there's only a slight difference between the goals of those two of the five main Yozi and those of the Neverborn. Everything destroyed versus Everything but a single Yozi destroyed is not really that much different. All in all, the Abyssals seek to bring about Oblivion, while the Infernals seek to bring about their masters' Rule.
So again, while I do like the vampire-like aspect of the Abyssals (particularly being able to feed, though the penalties for being in creation are a pain) and their general feel, the infernals are also pretty neat (and they can respire essence freely in Creation, not having to worry about the same things the Abyssals do), plus ruling the world is preferable to destroying it.
First a primer:
Creation used to be ruled by the primordials (analogous to the titans in Greek myth or giants of Norse). The gods got jealous and wanted to take over. But, since they were powerless to do anything against the primordials, they instead empowered ("exalted") countless mortals to do their fighting for them.
In the ensuing conflict, the primordials who were slain became the neverborn, and in their death the underworld was created. The primoridals who survived swore oaths to the victors and were twisted into the Yozi and locked away in hell.
The solars enjoyed great power for a while, but then the sidereals foresaw that they would bring about the end of creation. So, they figured their best plan was to take out the Solars. So, they manipulated the Dragonbloods into rebelling. And Terrestrial exalts did, and won, and the exaltations that gave the solars their power were locked away under the sea in the jade prison.
Now ever since the primordials were defeated, they had plans to get their revenge. The Neverborn, who are continuously falling towards "Oblivion", a howling whirlwind at the center of the Underworld said to be the end of everything, but never quite reaching it, want to destroy creation. The belief is that the Underworld was created because those dead primordials can't pass on, they still have something in them anchoring them to creation. But if creation is destroyed, that anchor is gone, and they can finally escape their state of undeath.
The Yozi on the other hand, want to reclaim creation for themselves. But losing the battle with the gods, they swore oaths in their defeat the prevented them from doing anything against their jailers and escaping from their prison. They first tried corrupting mortals and even exalted. Those exalts who joined the Yozi cause became "Akuma", the first kind of Infernal. But, despite the power of these Akuma, it wasn't enough to break them out of hell. So, the Yozis' new goal became to corrupt creation to the point where it and hell became indistinguishable and the gates separating the two would unlock, finally setting the Yozi free.
Anyways, when the solar exaltations were put in the jade prison and the Dragon-bloods took over, the Neverborn found the "souls" of those dead solars killed by the dragon-bloods (while the exaltation is their power, the soul is their personality) in the Underworld and managed to convince several of them into following them, and they were turned into the Deathlords. While they used to be Solars, since they lacked those exaltations, they were really just extremely powerful spirits, rather than exalts. They tried all sorts of plans to try and destroy creation butn ultimately failed.
It was then the the Yozi known as the Ebon Dragon learned about the Jade Prison, and came up with the idea to twist those exaltations within to become weapons to use against the gods and dragonbloods. Even allying with 4 fellow Yozi and getting the support of a 5th, that had nowhere near the power to get those exaltations out of the jade prison. So, he turned to the Neverborn. If they got their Deathlords to raise the Jade Prison and get those exaltations within, and gave the Yozi just 50 of those exaltations, the Yozi would teach the Neverborn how to twist the exaltations to suit their own needs.
The Deathlords, following their masters wishes, tried to get the Jade Prison. But in their attempt, they accidentally broke it open, and half of them leaked out, and those exaltations sought out heroic mortal souls to bond with and become the Solars of today. The deathlords managed to bring only half the number they were expecting to the Neverborn, and 50 of those were given to the Yozi. The Yozi taught the Neverborn how to change those exaltations. So, those exaltations that were twisted by the Neverborn became the Abyssals, and those twisted by the Yozi became the second type of Infernal exalt, the "Green Sun Princes".
So, there were about 300 solar exaltations total. Half escaped the prison, putting the number of solars around 150. The other 150 were split amongst the Neverborn and Yozi. The Yozi were promised 50 exaltations, with the rest going to the Neverborn. So breaking that down, that means there are only 150 solars now, with the others being corrupted into the 100 abyssals, and the last 50 being the green sun prince infernals.
Solar exaltations were created to seek out worthy mortals to bond to and empower. The Deathlords and Yozi, however, have a limited number of these exaltations and cannot be so capricious with who these get bonded to.
Interestingly enough, mortals who the solar exaltation decides to bond to have no choice in the matter. They just exalt. For Death Knights and Green Sun Princes though, the mortal must make a conscious choice to accept the exaltation. For abyssals, the Deathlords approach a suitable candidate at the point of their death (if a particular mortal strikes their fancy, they might engineer that death). To the dying mortal they offer survival and power beyond their wildest imagination. Infernals on the other hand, when the Yozi think a candidate is suitable, they see how they react to some great hardship (again, possibly engineered by the Yozi themselves). Now, the Yozi aren't gonna help them through this hardship, so its not like they'll be all, "We'll give you this infernal power to help you succeed". Rather, they look for the mortal to fail (due to some flaw in their character), but survive. It is then that they work their machinations on the candidate, saying how it was unfair what happened to them, and it is then that they offer them that great power, to change their stars.
******
I guess one thing that possibly makes the solars boring compared to their abyssal and infernal brethren (at least to me) is that the description of the exaltation for a solar is so mundane for such an incredible event. Yeah, there's a big flash of blinding light. Big whoop! The abyssals have a similar sort of exaltation, but the event itself seem to have negative consequences to the surrounding area where the exaltation takes place and any poor living creature that nearby. I mean, their exaltations are often minature versions of biblical plague-like events. Infernals are even more detailed in their transformation.
As mentioned earlier, exaltations seek out heroes to bond to once free. So when a solar is slain, they just fly free and eventually find a new mortal to bond to. Obviously, the Deathlords and Yozi don't want that to happen whenever their Death Knights or GSPs are killed. For the DKs, their abyssal exaltation goes back to its monstrance of celestial portion- large, coffin like objects in possession of certain Deathlords or Neverborn that house the exaltation when it is not used.
Infernal exaltations however, are tethered to the youngest daughter of the Scarlet Empress. This poor little girl was sacrificed to the Yozi, and has become an insane wretched creature into which the infernal exaltaions are tethered to. When a GSP needs to be made, the Yozi has one of their demons commune with this poor girl, Lillun, and the exaltation is transferred to it. Then the Yozi gets one of their cultists to summon it to creation and that demon seeks out a suitable mortal.
Once the mortal accepts, the demon envelops the candidate in a horrid cocoon (the appearance of which depends on the kind of demon) and they are slowly transformed into the new Infernal. The GSP eventually hatches, and the soul of the demon involved in the chrysalis sticks around, possibly offering advice and wot-not if strong enough (i.e., if the character has dots in the unwoven coadjutor merit).
*****
Now, as to which I prefer, the death knights and green sun princes are more interesting than the solars. But I do respect what the solars have to deal with. They exalt, they are basically alone in the world until they find some sort of friendly to help them out. If they're lucky, they'll find other solars with whom to form a circle with for mutual defense and to accomplish high reaching goals. And while a single solar is extremely powerful, a god amongst ants, they have so many enemies to deal with. The world is tough enough as it is, with the Fair Folk, the Deathlords, and Yozi around causing trouble for Creation. The Fae want to subsume Creation back into the boundless chaos. The Deathlords seek to pull everything into Oblivion at the behest of their Neverborn masters. The Yozi seek to escape Hell by transforming Creation into a facsimile of it. So the solars have to worry about these threats trying to destroy the world around them, if not being targeted themselves as the solars are some of the greatest threats to their plans.
But then they have a faction of Sidereals constantly trying to undermine them and manufacture their destruction, as well as an entire giant and powerful empire seeking to destroy them. While armies of mortals are nothing to them, the dragon blooded zealots leading the charge against them are a significant threat. They're taught from birth to see the Solars as abominations, making no differentiation between the Solars and their evil brethren, the DKs and GSPs. So these DBS fight with unwavering conviction, firmly believing they are doing right by destroying a great evil.
Anyways, I do like the vampireness of the Abyssals. With the black exaltation, they are frozen at the moment of their death, never aging, only subject to death by violent means. Plus, the exaltation transforms them into a darkly beautiful thing, or a truly hideous and horrid monster, never mundane. Being undead creatures, they cannot respire essence in creation, but when there can regain it through consuming it from the living.
Infernals on the other hand, when going through the metamorphosis are transformed back to the prime of their youth. It can be safely assumed like their solar counterparts, they age extremely slowly. So while the Abyssals will never die of old age, the GSPs age so slowly that its a moot point, and prolly won't be an issue for thousands of years.
They're all of equal power, though I haven't read up on infernal charms yet. While the GSPs are divided into similar caste groupings as the DKs/Solars, their charm sets aren't simply renamed solar or abyssal charms though and work on a different mechanic. They are not based off of certain skills, but rather their Yozi patron. They have a variety of different effects tied together through some unifying theme (dominance, trickery, etc). Also, the GSP excellencies are more expensive (in both experience and essence cost), but can be used to modify ANY action that falls within those themes. So the cost evens out.
However, in terms of power beyond their individual stats, again, the Solars are on their own. They have to work at becoming the hero they are destined to become, scavenge and deal to survive and build a power base. Death Knights have a Deathlord and its vast armies (well, depending on the Deathlord) backing them up from the start. Their masters are fully willing to laud them with powerful artifacts and mortal and undead helpers to help them achieve their goals. So to the GSPs have the Yozi backing them up. But unlike the Deathlords, the Yozi are a little more willing to work together. So while the DKs are well respected generals and accorded some measure of power in the Underworld, given that the GSPs place in hell's heirarchy is more codified through agreement of their Yozi masters, they truly are princes. In addition to the same kinds of benefits the DKs get, they have their own estates in Malfeas and seem to be afforded more power than the Deathlords give their DKs (mechanics wise, they do get a free dot in backing, cult, and influence, in addition to all the usual stuff solars/abyssals/infernals get).
Goal wise, the Death Knights are tasked with destroying everything. The Green Sun Princes on the other hand, are tasked with taking over Creation and twisting it into a form suitable to their hellish masters. Though the form Malfeas wishes to see is all of Creation razed, while Adjoran wishes for all its inhabitants to be forever dead (truly dead, not the whole undeath of the Underworld)and silenced, so there's only a slight difference between the goals of those two of the five main Yozi and those of the Neverborn. Everything destroyed versus Everything but a single Yozi destroyed is not really that much different. All in all, the Abyssals seek to bring about Oblivion, while the Infernals seek to bring about their masters' Rule.
So again, while I do like the vampire-like aspect of the Abyssals (particularly being able to feed, though the penalties for being in creation are a pain) and their general feel, the infernals are also pretty neat (and they can respire essence freely in Creation, not having to worry about the same things the Abyssals do), plus ruling the world is preferable to destroying it.
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Date: 2009-06-09 03:49 pm (UTC)Malfeas, the former king of the Primordials, is so pissed at how the thing they created went so wrong that he just wants to destroy it all. Which almost sounds like he's more in line with the goals of the Fair Folk, just getting rid of everything, which to me means it will turn back into the formless Wyld. Though it might be that he's gone so insane that he does want to destroy it, but then rebuild it all and destroy it again, over and over until his endless rage is finally placated.
Adjoran, seems more in line with the Neverborn, as she just wants an eternal stillness. Though she seems to think if just the Underworld got sucked into the Abyss, the void would close up behind it. But if she had her way, everything would be just truly dead. So creation would exist, but it would be an vast, empty wasteland. Though if that happened, it doesn't seem like there would be anything stopping the Fair Folk from just reclaiming it all back into the chaos. I guess she would be around.
So I guess the Neverborn want to create an actual "nothing" in the middle of all the chaos, Malfeas just wants to destroy everything and possibly rebuild it just to destroy it again over and over, and Adjoran just wants an eternal silence to creep over Creation. It seems like the differences between the first and third are just splitting hairs though.